Invision Power Board Or vBulletin? For WJunction.

[ThreeNF]

xenforo

 

[Invisian]

eLight, what about some cleaning ? The forums filled with many dead and closed topics.
or Is that not an option?

 

[BlazZe.]

IPB is better than vb
because vb have much bugs and its very easy to hack it with only 1 bug

 

[SuicidalMedia]

@BlazZe.
Guys like you shouldn't be allowed to vote.

First of all, vBulletin doesn't have any major bugs. Second, neither there are any major security vulnerabilities.

 

[Gh0st]

Yeah besides a few, others are not providing a strong reason why they support which forum script.

 

[Wadibahi]

IPB is very nice but if u select nice looking template otherwise dont change this vb

 

[Lock Down]

My question is why change?

This is not a social site and therefore does not need all the pretty designs and bells and whistles.

Are you changing directions from where we are now?

If yes IPB because of all the bells and whistles and it is also easy to mod after a little study time of the structure.

 

[Smith]

@BlazZe.
Guys like you shouldn't be allowed to vote.

First of all, vBulletin doesn't have any major bugs. Second, neither there are any major security vulnerabilities.

Well, from 72 votes for vB, atleast 50 were from guys like him and a lot of guys who voted for IPB explained why

 

[AssociatePay]

VB is much more featured.

 

[Hyperz]

Even though that vBulletin 3 won't be developed anymore, I'm 100% sure that there won't be any major vulnerabilities.

Ignorance is bliss. History has proven vB to be one of the most insecure but also the most wide spread BB software. That's a dangerous combination. Anyone who paid a bit of attention during history lessons in school will know that by knowing the past you can make more accurate assumptions and decisions in the future. Point being, new vulnerabilities being found is a likelihood. Anyone who has worked with vB's code base and has some basic understanding of programming and security will tell you that vB is insecure by nature because of the way the underlying code and API was written. When it comes to its plugin system it doesn't enforce secure code trough its API. The code base is old, poorly optimized and not well thought out security-wise. The only fix is a total rewrite like Invision did with IPB 3.

Biggest Internet Communities are using vBulletin 3.

That's because up until recently there was nothing around that was competing vB in terms of features and usability. Times change though. Nowadays vB is miles behind IPB 3, let alone IPB 3.1 (and we won't even mention the soon to be released 3.2). It is behind in virtually all aspects - performance, security, code-base, maintainability, useability, price and the list goes on. Lots of these big communities, especially those who are well maintained, are switching to better alternatives. Lots of new sites are now avoiding Jellysoft software. Anyone claiming otherwise is either as ignorant as they come, has a biased opinion or simply likes to think they know a few things about the technical side while in reality they are as green as they come.

It really doesn't spend that much resources like IPB does.

It consumes a lot more resources than IPB 3. This not a biased opinion but a fact. And one that can easily be proven by setting up a test environment and simulating unique traffic. Everyone is able to do the test. While the performance difference will be nearly non-existend on small sites, under large stress IPB will run circles around vB. This goes back to the outdated code base, which by the way is used in vB 4 too, but with a bit of extra bloat to further slow it down. It's the Crysis of BB software, only difference is that Crysis looks good. vB does not. Perhaps take off your vBulletin T-shirt and give it a go, hmm? It's easy to make a claim and present it as being a fact because it makes your favorite software/brand/e-penis look good/big.

It can be lite without having to remove bunch of unnecessary things like on IPB.

So let me get this straight, you claim it doesn't consume a lot of resources, only to go on and say you can make it lite. Tell me, if it isn't lite now then just what the hell is it 8-)? Exactly. The only way you'll make vB lite by is removing it altogether or do what Jellysoft should have done with vB 4 and re-think + re-write EVERYTHING. It are not the features that make vB slow.

You can make anything out of it with little HTML/CSS knowledge.

Same goes for most other BB's, including IPB. The difference being that IPB's ACP is actually usable and straight forward.

Everyone is familiar with it.

Familiar with what exactly? What does IPB have that is so radically different from vB from a users perspective? Nothing. From a webmasters perspective it doesn't matter because IPB's ACP is functional, well structured and very straight forward. This is in sharp contrast to vB ACP, which DOES take getting used to for new users.

But the important thing is that no matter what they try to do with XenForo, IPB and vBulletin 4 they can never achieve the same thing like they achieved with vBulletin 3, it was and it remained the best commercial forum software.

What did vB 3 achieve? Or rather, what did it achieve that IPB 3 hasn't so far? And how, according to your oh so professional opinion, is it "the best" when everything you just claimed was based on a biased opinion that doesn't hold water?

Everyone, including me will have a biased opinion. There's nothing wrong with personal preference. But don't turn assumptions in to facts if you haven't got the slightest clue. Again, we're all biased, but there's a big difference between being biased because of assumptions or "i haz it so it iz teh best" mentality, and being biased because after some research you've came to a conclusion based on reproducible facts.

Have a good day.

 

[Netguy]

^^Didn't you die typing Hyperz ?

 

[River]

That would be pretty hard to transfer, you would lose all of your modifications and everything......
Also, you would need a different forum to test it out on first so you make sure you don't mess up on the real thing.

 

[Hyperz]

^^Didn't you die typing Hyperz ?

I did a little bit, however, it was well worth it.

 

[SuicidalMedia]

@Hyperz

Ignorance is bliss. History has proven vB to be one of the most insecure but also the most wide spread BB software. That's a dangerous combination. Anyone who paid a bit of attention during history lessons in school will know that by knowing the past you can make more accurate assumptions and decisions in the future. Point being, new vulnerabilities being found is a likelihood. Anyone who has worked with vB's code base and has some basic understanding of programming and security will tell you that vB is insecure by nature because of the way the underlying code and API was written. When it comes to its plugin system it doesn't enforce secure code trough its API. The code base is old, poorly optimized and not well thought out security-wise. The only fix is a total rewrite like Invision did with IPB 3.

If you actually know anything, you'd know that from all vBulletin security vulnerabilities, only 19 of them weren't mod related. And of all those 19 security vulnerabilities, only 2 of them were for the vB 3.8.x. And guess what, neither one of them is a major security vulnerability.

Every released script had security vulnerabilities, so you can't say that you wouldn't use vBulletin because of that.
You don't have to worry that some Genius will discover some major vulnerability, and that he'll release it for free, so all noobs could fuck up the sites. That won't be happening.

That's because up until recently there was nothing around that was competing vB in terms of features and usability. Times change though. Nowadays vB is miles behind IPB 3, let alone IPB 3.1 (and we won't even mention the soon to be released 3.2). It is behind in virtually all aspects - performance, security, code-base, maintainability, useability, price and the list goes on. Lots of these big communities, especially those who are well maintained, are switching to better alternatives. Lots of new sites are now avoiding Jellysoft software. Anyone claiming otherwise is either as ignorant as they come, has a biased opinion or simply likes to think they know a few things about the technical side while in reality they are as green as they come.

All forum scripts have more features than they actually need, it all depends on what the site admin likes and what not. Some people are vBulletin Professionals, and some people are IPB Professionals, and it's logical that they will always go for IPB as they learned to do anything they want with it.

New sites can avoid vBulletin all they want, it still doesn't change the fact that vBulletin is a great forum software.

It consumes a lot more resources than IPB 3. This not a biased opinion but a fact. And one that can easily be proven by setting up a test environment and simulating unique traffic. Everyone is able to do the test. While the performance difference will be nearly non-existend on small sites, under large stress IPB will run circles around vB. This goes back to the outdated code base, which by the way is used in vB 4 too, but with a bit of extra bloat to further slow it down. It's the Crysis of BB software, only difference is that Crysis looks good. vB does not. Perhaps take off your vBulletin T-shirt and give it a go, hmm? It's easy to make a claim and present it as being a fact because it makes your favorite software/brand/e-penis look good/big.

It's obvious that both of them won't have the same performance on a board with 20 active users at the same time, and with 500 users at the same time. Every premade script needs to be optimized in order to work on a high traffic site.

Same goes for most other BB's, including IPB. The difference being that IPB's ACP is actually usable and straight forward.

Not true. For a Webmaster who just started, vBulletin's style system will be way easier than the IPB's one.

Familiar with what exactly? What does IPB have that is so radically different from vB from a users perspective? Nothing. From a webmasters perspective it doesn't matter because IPB's ACP is functional, well structured and very straight forward. This is in sharp contrast to vB ACP, which DOES take getting used to for new users.

IPB is kinda like social network sites, with those sexy profile features, different reputation system, and some other stuff. User who was mostly on vBulletin forums would need time to get used to the IPB's features and everything. Sometimes, the small difference can mean a lot. For example, on vBulletin and phpBB, reply buttons are left, while on the IPB and MyBB, they're right. That doesn't sound like a big issue, but some people wouldn't like it.

What did vB 3 achieve? Or rather, what did it achieve that IPB 3 hasn't so far? And how, according to your oh so professional opinion, is it "the best" when everything you just claimed was based on a biased opinion that doesn't hold water?

What it didn't achieve?
There are more big forums running vBulletin than IPB, and all of them have a normal speed, even though some of them have over 2,000 users online at the same time.

You won't achieve anything by saying that vBulletin needs a complete rewrite, because it doesn't.

I personally think that all premade scripts aren't meant to be liked by developers, as it's obvious they wouldn't like the backend, if it's not coded the way they like it.

Important thing for me, is that the shit I want works, nothing else. You can live in your world of perfection.

 

[Sp32]

I personally think that all premade scripts aren't meant to be liked by developers, as it's obvious they wouldn't like the backend, if it's not coded the way they like it.

Oh so true!

also on topic:

Hyperz argument made me want to change to IPB even though I voted for vBulletin, I suppose now I feel like I am missing something because I haven't tried it

 

[Greeny]

I'm a vB guy myself, because I have the most experience in skinning, etc. However, even I have to say IPB is a much nicer platform, and the profiles are WAY better, IPB forums feel a lot more welcoming than vB.

 

[House_maniac]

i really don't agree with most of your answers jason but the part stating that vb acp is more userfriendly than ipb is completely false,i've tried vb 3.8 and as far as concern even ipb 3.0 acp is more userfriendly than vb the search function in ipb acp is just awesome.

 

[Myth?]

It doesn't really matter to me. Im experience with vB and IPB, so both seem to be good. But I prefer vBulletin over IPB anyday.

 

[Hyperz]

Jason, dear, if you're gonna waste 50 minutes in an attempt to save face at least try and bring some new and/or valid arguments to the table instead of writing an extended version of the nonsense in your first post. I'll keep this one relatively short since you basically addressed none of my arguments or you missed the point by miles.

If you actually know anything, you'd know that from all vBulletin security vulnerabilities, only 19 of them weren't mod related.

Read that part of my reply again, and read it carefully this time. As I said, vB is insecure by nature. As a developer, if you make a plugin, you interact with an API (and I suggest you look up that term because I don't think you quite understand what it actually means). If you write a plugin that adds tags to threads then most of that will go trough the API/library, which of course is part of vBulletin. For example, inserting new tags would require handling input data and interaction with MySQL based on that input data. Thus API calls would need to be made. It is the API that is responsible for presenting that input data to said plugin and executing the queries. That means it is the API's responsibility to ensure that by the time the data reaches the plugin (and the DB after that) it is secure and filtered. So an SQL injection should be nullified way before the plugins code is run. In human language, if the API doesn't provide a secure environment for the plugin then the API is unsafe and poorly designed/thought out. And since the API is an interface to the core code base, an unsafe API means unsafe script or program. This is why IPB doesn't have this issue. Its API is safe and well thought-out. Based on the concept of a sandbox environment .

But you're right. I don't know anything. I haven't got a clue what I'm talking and I bow down to your expertise.

And of all those 19 security vulnerabilities, only 2 of them were for the vB 3.8.x. And guess what, neither one of them is a major security vulnerability

Sure. I guess reading the FAQ on a vB site and suddenly being presented with the MySQL database password, username, prefix and the whole shebang isn't major. Or registering under the same name as an admin account which caused vB treat both accounts as one in ceirten cases. Which amongst other things allowed the second account to receive and read all PM's from the admin account.

I would certainly call those valid reasons to avoid vB.

All forum scripts have more features than they actually need, it all depends on what the site admin likes and what not.

What the "admin" wants doesn't matter. A site is there for its users and community. It depends all on what they want. Unless you're just as clueless as a lot of todays self-proclaimed webmasters are and are happy with a 0-activity site that relies on worthless DLL submissions and whatnot to generate some worthless numbers on a traffic stats page.

New sites can avoid vBulletin all they want, it still doesn't change the fact that vBulletin is a great forum software.

Great software according to whose standards? Yours? Your forums, if you have any, must be very competitive.

Every premade script needs to be optimized in order to work on a high traffic site.

Again, wrong. A script is either optimized or it isn't. IPB does a fairly good job because it is optimized within reason. Further optimization must come from the http server, php config, db, etc. Not the case with vB.

Not true. For a Webmaster who just started, vBulletin's style system will be way easier than the IPB's one.

Stop basing your opinion on prehistoric IPB version or phpBB and give IPB 3.1/2 a try. For an admin both work pretty much the same, though IPB uses different concepts for developers which make developing hooks a lot easier.

IPB is kinda like social network sites, with those sexy profile features, different reputation system, and some other stuff. User who was mostly on vBulletin forums would need time to get used to the IPB's features and everything.

I guess only geeks and IPB fans register on Facebook then. Which seems odd since I'm not registered on Facebook.

There are more big forums running vBulletin than IPB, and all of them have a normal speed, even though some of them have over 2,000 users online at the same time.

I feel like I'm in a parallel universe replying to you. I already addressed the numbers thing in my post you just quoted.


Guess it was a lengthy post after all. At any rate this was my last response on the subject since you clearly have an opinion that no mortal will be able to change or open up a bit.

 

[Sp32]

I think vBulletin is better because it has some pretty colours and can display urls quite nicely.

IPB doesn't have very good link displaying features. Like when you click a link it doesn't change colour to say you've visited it. I think this is a cache error on IPB

I also once went on an IPB website and someone was mean to me.